Partial Transcript of March 7th Coast to Coast Am with George Noory and Jonathan Zap
I started trying to transcribe the whole show, but started to realize it was a gigantic project and more time then I’m willing to invest. Also transcribed conversation tends to seem a bit goofey, you see all the sloppiness of off the cuff talk and lose all the subtleties of intonation. You can download the show as an MP3 from coasttocoastam.com. You do have to pay, unfortunately, but a full month of streamlink is only $5.95 and gives you access to a 90 day archive of shows. If you liked the show, feel free to email firstname.lastname@example.org and tell them that you would like to see me back on. I would like to do a whole show on Mind Parasites, another on the Tolkien mythos and another on body image obsession and its relation to our present evolutionary crisis.
Note: I didn’t transcribe every um and y’know, but otherwise transcribed as accurately and completely as possible. A tanscript loses much of the nuances of the spoken word and if you want to hear the show in its entirety it is downloadable as an MP3 from the coasttocoastam.com website—but you do need a paid subscription to their Streamlink service which archives shows for 90 days.
Opening Music—-From the City of Angels off the Pacific Ocean good morning, good evening, where ever you may be, across the nation and around the world. I’m George Noory, welcome to America ’s most listened to late night talk show Coast to Coast AM…
Next hour get ready for Jonathan Zap, an expert on end times and two thousand twelve…
I’ll skip most of the first hour as it was news stories and calls unrelated to my appearance on the show.
Fortuitously the first caller was someone I know well, Marcus from Phoenix, Arizona who found my writings on mind parasites by googling that subject and with whom I have exchanged numerous emails and a couple of phone calls related to his many experiences with mind parasites. Didn’t get to tape the very start of his call, but here is most of it:
Marcus: I do want to let you know, man, that you do an excellent job, you hear everybody out and I’m sure that can get very difficult at times and I just want to give your props for that.
George: Sometimes I have to bite my lip Marcus, and I go home with no lip, but I (garbled) but it’s not that hard, believe it, thank you..
Marcus: I do want to tell you I’m really looking forward to your guest this evening, he’s an excellent individual. I have read some of his suff on the internet and I beg you—try to get him to talk about his parasitic life form topics, they’re really interesting.
George: OK, I will do that, thanks for pointing that out.
Marcus: I would like to tell a story of my own in the same area—
George: I think that you’ve waited so long to get in, you might as well tell us what you’re going to tell us.
Marcus: I personally…there is chronic fatigue syndrome and that type of thing…I personally—I witnessed a ghost come to my bed in the middle of the night and it was in the process of taking my energy like it was business as usual. It was an amazing thing to witness, to actually see first hand…I could tell you the play-by-play, but I’ve come to the realization that a lot of people out there that say they are suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome or they just don’t have any energy…these people are the food sources for disincarnate people who haven’t gone on to the next level—
George: What a fascinating theory!
Marcus: I certainly didn’t come up with it, it’s in the Tibetan Book of the Dead and—
George: I’ve read that and I’ve also read the Egyptian Book of the De ad, two books that fascinated me when I was in my early twenties, by the way.
Marcus: Excellent, excellent and did you come to the same conclusions on any of this?
George: Yes, I sure did…and I’m gonna move on to some other calls but there are—we’ve talked a little bit about this before, people don’t understand why there are what we call energy sappers that roam this planet. Now these are human beings that take the energy from you, but you are absolutely correct, there could be other entities in these other dimensions and planes that feed off of us , our energy, because the one thing I have learned over the last several years, thanks to many of you, is that this energy, in this universe, is everywhere and it’s all inter-connected…all inter-connected….
Skipping stuff from first hour, transcribing some of his promos of the guest portion:
George: …I love that last name, Jonathan Zap our guest as we talk about prophecy, end times, two thousand twelve in a moment…
….he’s an expert in end times, who knows maybe the signs are all here…
Announcer: From somewhere out there… this is Coast to Coast AM with George Noory
George: Jonathan Zap graduated from Ursinus college with honors in Philosophy and English and received his Master’s Degree in English from NYU. He is an author, teacher, philosopher and he has written extensively on human evolution and contemporary mythology. He was recently featured in two DVDs : Prophecy and the End of Time —a Dialogue between Jonathan and Mayan scholar, John Major Jenkins, about the nature of prophecy and the two thousand twelve end date and Looking Toward the Event Horizon in which he discusses his research into the metamorphosis of the human species. Jonathan has an extensive background in Jungian philosophy and psychology, paranormal research and dream interpretation. For twenty-seven years he has been using the tools of Jungian philosophy and psychology to study popular culture, contemporary mythology, and dreams, for evidence that we are getting signals from the collective unconscious about the nature of a quantum evolutionary event approaching the human species. Our special guest tonight on Coast to Coast AM, Jonathan Zap.
Hi Jonathan how are you?
Jonathan: I’m great George, I’m grateful to be on the show, I have been listening for ten years and you are like a beacon in the night.
George: It’s good to have you on, by the way, and you bear my son’s name.
Jonathan: Right, the one that is graduating from college and is going to be a policeman.
George: Absolutely, you got that one right, absolutely, you do listen!
Jonathan: I sure do, I’ve got a Versacorder and a CC Radio. (products of the C. Crane company designed for recording AM talk shows, especially Coast, and advertised on the show)
George: Ha, ha, ha, I love it! How did you get interested—here you have a Master’s degree in English, you’re an author, teacher, how did you get interested in prophecy, end times and events like that?
Jonathan: Well, I followed the path that you followed in your life in its broad outline, and that many of the guests, and many of the listeners have, which I call The Path of the Numinous . And numinous is a word that— numin means spirit, and something is numinous when it is imbued with the spirit or it lights up in your mind as having an uncanny significance. And so what you’ve done in your life George, I know from listening to the show, those things that were numinous to you—the UFOs and so forth, many people hear about these and they’re like, “That’s interesting.” and then they just keep going on about their business. But a person who follows the path of the numinous goes down the rabbit hole and investigates. And that’s basically what I did, and one of the first numinous things that drove me on this path—there were a number of paranormal experiences I won’t get into—but they showed me that there are other dimensions out there than what I was encountering in the mundane world. One of those signposts on that path was a British science fiction movie called Village of the Damned—-
George: I remember that, that was scary.
Jonathan: It sure was, and Lex (the webmaster for Coast) was kind enough to post a still from that movie up on your website that people can take a look at. And when I saw that movie it stirred something deep inside, and it wasn’t like it was just a scary movie, I’d seen plenty of those, it wasn’t just that it was a neat movie or something like that, it was almost a feeling that had a kind of religious
reverberation, and I didn’t really understand that at the time. And then another event happened about three or four years later. I was in high school and I happened to read Arthur C. Clarke’s classic science fiction novel, Childhood’s End. And here was another anomaly because what I thought were my most personal fantasies, that I was turning into some juvenile science fiction stories, here this guy had—- here it is I am reading it in the book! How could this be? Could this guy have stolen my ideas? I checked the copyright, 1953, four years before I was born, how is that possible?
Jonathan: So when I was in my last year of college, I was nineteen and twenty years old, under the supervision of the chairman of the philosophy department I had a chance to finally, after completing my required courses, follow the path of the numinous and go down the rabbit hole with these anomalies and try to investigate, and it was actually my mom, I have to give her credit, who said, “Well you should look into Carl Jung and his idea of collective unconscious and the archetypes.” (my mom is a psychologist)
George: And you find, as I did, Jonathan, that once you go down that rabbit hole it has many different tunnels underneath it.
Jonathan: It absolutely does, and what you also find is that you are led through a labyrinth by synchronicities.
Jonathan: And the first synchronicity that I encountered came right after I had that phone conversation with my mom. I went up to the school library, there are these impressive black volumes—the works of Carl Jung. They look kind of numinous to me, but I’m sort of skeptically saying, What’s this Swiss guy who reached manhood in the Nineteenth century, what’s he going to have to say about my weird obsession with these sci-fi stories? But I pull out the index volume and I see, Huh?! He’s written a book called Flying Saucers a Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky. Well, that’s a direct hit, so of course I open that book and I start paging through it and I see that this was a topic Jung wrote about right at the end of his life and that he couldn’t quite let go of it, and you get to the end of the book and he adds an epilogue, because he found something else, and after the epilogue he adds a supplement. Well, in the supplement he is analyzing a novel called The Midwhich Cuckoos by John Wyndham. Well, that is the novel that the movie, Village of the Damned, was based on.
Jonathan: Right. And so it was almost like, here he was, the last word that he has to say on the subject. at the end of his life, is also the exact starting point for me. And it was almost as if he was standing next to me and saying, Huh! I was wondering about that one too.
Jonathan: And so he actually, although he died in 1961, was my mentor, following that path, because he provided the tools to understand that when different people are having the same vision and the same dreams what that means and how to interpret it and what it has to say about where we may be going as a species.
George: And they do. Especially, do you find, Jonathan, that during periods of crises and other events like that people en masse will generally have similar feelings, dreams, interpretations?
Jonathan: This is absolutely the case. And of course we are in such a time right now, and we are having those collective dreams. Basically, a collective dream is what is called a myth. And Jung noticed this as well. For example, he was working as a psychoanalyst in the Weimar Republic, pre World War Two Germany, in the 1930s and he noticed a very strange thing, his educated, highly civilized, German patients were all dreaming about the same thing, they were dreaming about a particular god named Wotan, who is a god of war and mayhem, and based on the dreams that they were having Jung made some astounding predictions about the emergence of what he called The Blonde Beast . And long before Hitler had become the dominant figure that he later became, he predicted that someone would play that role, and that a tremendous war-like spirit that was going to astound the world was going to come out of this people.
George: How do they have this ability? What happens to people where they obviously tune in to something. How do they do it?
Jonathan: Well, what they’re doing is, we have to consider what a person is, our minds, what we call our minds, our personal mind space, that has a personal unconscious, things that may have happened to us as a child, but they are also kind of like icebergs floating in an ocean, we are not alone in our minds, and when we go far down enough into our own personal rabbit holes through dreams, through meditation and so forth, we tap into the collective mind field, what Jung called the collective unconscious, very similar to what another guest, Ruppert Sheldrake, British biologist, called morphogenetic fields , I think he now calls them morphic fields and there’s great experimental evidence of this that some of the paraspsycholgists that have been on, like Russel Targ, have pointed out. We now have considerable evidence that we are not these isolated little bubbles of consciousness, but that we are floating in a sea of conscious that is interpenetrating and interconnecting.
George: Since the beginning of time, almost, mankind has predicted end times, I think nearly every civilization, Jonathan, has predicted end
times for their own specific period.
George: It never happened obviously.
George: Are we ever going to have end times, or is it something that every civilization just seems to want to say.
Jonathan: Well, every species has an end time, they say that the average life of a species is a 100,000 years. But there is a certain level of illusion that we have to pierce through in order to look at that event horizon, as I call it, and confront the fact that there have been, as you very correctly say, all these disconfirmations they are called, where people have gone to the mountain top, and have expected that something would happen. Revelations , for example, was written in the expectation that these were events that were going to be experienced by the Christians of the first century, not the twentieth or the twenty-first. Now I have a theory about why prophets may actually have a vision of the end time that may, in a lot of its characteristics, be accurate, but is classically wrong about the time line and here’s what I think is happening. Human beings tend to become very confused about inside versus outside especially where something has a strong emotional charge. And one thing that has a very strong emotional charge in most of us is anxiety about our personal death.
Jonathan: And when we don’t want to face something, and we don’t want to find it in ourselves, we tend to project it out onto somebody else or out into the outside world. So instead of having to face the anxiety we have about our individual event horizon—something that I look forward to and think of as a portal, an emergence rather than an emergency , but many people are fearful about it and their ego is very oriented toward the social matrix and the thought that all this will be going on and I won’t even be here, and people can talk about me and I won’t even be able to say anything back— it’s quite upsetting. But if you see an end time happening, and you see it happening within your expected lifetime, well this is much more satisfying, and people have this deep feeling in their body and in their psyche that— this could all end at any moment. Well, of course it can, we’re mortals, we’re vulnerable, the next time we are out on the freeway it could all end, this is a very accurate feeling, but people, instead of turning that feeling inward and saying, I’m feeling my own mortality, turn it outward and say, I feel it, the world is going to end .
There was an interesting anecdotal confirmation of this theory, or at least support of it that I heard on Coast just a few years ago, it might have been Art interviewing someone who talked about a woman psychic from the early 1960s who was very famous and syndicated in many newspapers, but it wasn’t Jeanne Dixon who was the most famous woman psychic from that era, and she had a prediction of when the great earthquake in California would come and she had a vision, and she was obviously sincere because at great expense she moved her family from the Bay Area to Nevada. After she made this predicition, copy cat psychics— lots of people started focusing in on the same day and saying that yeah, they agreed, it was going to happen on that date. Well, when the date arrived there was no earthquake, but she died, of some rare disease.
George: Hmm, that’s interesting, so for her, that was her end time.
Jonathan: Exactly. And so this is why there is a confusion, because there is a genuine parallelism between our individual event horizon—where we reach the end of time, which is not when time runs out, but where our perception of linear time is expanded into something far greater. And the end of time for the species—just like a fractal, the small part recapitulates the whole—we are as an individual human, like a hologram, we are a piece of that larger unit called the species, and so just as we have a personal event horizon called death, the species does have an eschaton or an end time that every species has—
George: How much credence, Jonathan, do you place with prophecy and end times.
Jonathan: Not much when it comes to a particular prophecy. Where there is credence, and this is one of the tools of Jungian psychology, one person has a dream—well who knows? But if you take different visions and different dreams in different places where it turns up in mythology and so forth and now you strip away any idiosyncrasies that are unique to any particular vision or dream and now you see what they all have in common, now you start to get a pattern that we call an archetype, and that pattern, I believe, is accurate.
George: Is that a scientific way to look at it?
Jonathan: I think so, Jung felt it was, he stressed that he was an empiricist, and he proved the existence of archetypes because these are what he calls primordial images
that turn up in all kinds of different cultures that had no contact with each other . And these are things very familiar to us, for example, the hero is an archetype, and if you go to any culture, tribal—no matter what kind, they all have hero stories, and in those hero stories the hero goes through certain classic phases like the call to adventure, the descent into darkness. Joseph Campbell wrote about this in a book called, The Hero with a Thousand Faces, and so this is real empirical evidence that these archetypes in the collective unconscious exist.
George: The people who contributed to Revelation, which is probably, I think, one of the most prophetic of all predictions, based on the very strange language and interpretation of events, like Wormwood from sky, and things like that, how accurate would you say that would be, because you’ve studied things in the future, how accurate do you think Revelation might be?
Jonathan: Well, I think it’s very accurate if it’s properly interpreted. The problem is that a lot of people will interpret things literally, which is the mistake that a lot of people make with dream interpretation, and occasionally there are dreams to be taken literally, but they need to be —-prophecies, visions, mythology, dreams—-all require a more metaphorical way of analysis, and so what Revelations has in common with so many other visions, is that it sees that there is a great darkness or shock that comes before a great light, and this is something that turns up in a lot of people’s dreams who are not necessarily Christians, it turns up in science fiction stories, and so forth, with a lot of additional elements too, that are quite interesting and that are shared. And so I think that Revelations is one of the first really vivid manifestations of what I call the singularity archetype.
George: Somebody call me last hour and wanted me to ask you if in prophecy the fact that locusts are heavily mentioned prior to major events. Because several months ago we had a lot of locusts throughout the Middle East and they just said you gotta ask Jonathan this thing. I don’t know, are they?
Jonathan: Well, there is a tremendous amount of lore, some of it well substantiated, about disturbances in the natural world that will often parallel disturbances in the collective unconscious. For example, one of the most classic examples of this is that when people die, especially somebody that seems to have as strong charge of some sort in other people’s lives, very strange things often happen with birds related to their funeral and their passing and there are many, many stories about this. And one of the things that we’re learning, even from quantum mechanics, is that there is no firewall between the realm of the psyche and the natural world, the world of objects. The Princeton experiments that have been reported on your show point toward this, and so what’s happening with the weather, and what’s happening in the natural world and what’s happening in the psychic world may very well line up and parallel each other, that’s what a synchronicity is, and that was a term that was coined by Carl Jung, and he created the term after having many dinner conversations with Einstein and with another Noble Prize winning physicist, Wolfgang Pauli.
George: Was Jung concerned about the future at all Jonathan?
Jonathan: Well, he absolutely was. He had a vision about World War One. He had many things to say about World War Two and near the end of his life he had a lot of visions which have not been made public. The family is still, as far as I know, guarding those, and he was very concerned about the future because he knew something that the great historian Arnold Toynbee knew. Toynbee mapped out the life cycle of civilizations—he saw that civilizations were in decline when they didn’t have a ruling myth, and what Jung noticed, even starting with the Seventeenth Century, the ruling myth, which had been Christianity for most of the West was in decline to a certain extent….
And that was where my enthusiasm for transcription declined to zero…thanks for listening/reading